KOSTAS KAZAKOS

Talking a walk with Kostas Kazakos down the pathways of art and day-to-day life

Walking around Mycenae is like a ritual

His involvement in the theatre goes side-by-side with his involvement in social events. He is an artist with a social conscience who has made a practical contribution to society. His art, the theatre, is a contribution to beauty; a contribution to mankind. This winter in the Jenny Karezi Theatre Kostas Kazakos presents the play ‘Daphne and Oleander' by Kechaidis and Haviaras, a deeply political, deeply human work.

What does Greece mean to you and how to do you think foreign visitors see Greece?

I don’t think there are differences between how a Greek and how an ‘aware’ foreigner views our country. The play remains timely and vibrant, even though written in 1979. The heroes are familiar characters and it is sad that they remain so vital and their problems are still known. The relations between politics and voters remains bound with uncertainly and the fear of voters about how to handle their vote. To a large extent even today they sell out their votes. This gives rise to party political rivalry. Voters in effect are interested in resolving day-to-day problems, personal problems; about getting a good job for their children, their nephews and nieces, about finding a job in the public sector. They are concerned about finding something stable for the future, a future which is uncertain and frightening. This uncertainty leads people into making choices which are not based on their principles and prevents the country from moving forward. The concepts of ‘sovereign people’ and ‘democracy’ are always the issue and not only in relation to the Greek people, but internationally too. Instead of being liberated, people are becoming shackled.

What I like about the play is the obvious contrast. The Daphne plant is associated with Greece and its history. How do you think we appear in the eyes of foreigners?

We cannot present foreigners with any image other than what we really are. Any façade we present cannot cover up the reality of the situation, so anyone who stays a little longer than just a visit to enjoy the beaches and the sun can certainly see it. That reality is dreary. There is a permanent lag which we cannot escape from. We ought to have retained the special features of this place rather than giving in. Among modern Greeks you have to search deep to find ‘Greek virtues’.

And democracy which was born in Greece, and which the play deals with, what is its relationship with the present day situation?

Democracy is a ‘prize’ won in antiquity and held onto for a short while only. Direct democracy, true democracy, when the people themselves were responsible for Athens, up on the Pnyx Hill, rapidly became vulnerable. Democracy disarms it does not arm. It needs to be defended constantly. It does not permit us to stand still. It requires constant deepening and enrichment. That is why it lasted such a short time in history.

However there is one place where democracy took root, in Ancient Greek drama, in tragedy and comedy....

In effect that is a parallel story. No one knows if democracy gave rise to that form of theatre or if the theatre led to democracy. The art of theatre and Art in general have their own rules and make sure they are observed. In the field of art there are all manner of weeds which arise, weeds which sprout within society too but there are also resistant forces that uphold the laws and values and rules of art alive even in the most terrible era, an era which is inundated with the vulgar and the barbarian and disposable things, things which are produced today en masse – mass culture so to speak – which has reached a terrible condition. At the same time, however, there are several islands of resistance in all countries which add a truly artistic dimension to life and from there one can draw on everything art has to offer, in other words, come to realize the substance of life.

Ancient Greek drama continues to remain apposite and bewitching even today. It resonates right around the world. It is produced at theatres worldwide. Foreign visitors come to Greece and inundate our ancient theatres to enjoy a production of a tragedy or comedy. What it is that gives this art form its timeless dimension?

It is both charming and terrifying. Ancient Greek drama arose alongside democracy and lasted for a short while after the fall of democracy. It cannot be repeated again. It continues to exist in the sense of support for islands of resistance I mentioned above. That form of theatre conceived of human problems viewed through life. In ancient drama man and the universe exist. Man and life in general. Not day-to-day life but the terrible fear which exists within our every cell. This wonderful creation cannot age because it relates to all of us at all times. These are works which dissect the problems and questions raised by human existence which have no answer but with which we all struggle in order for us to be able to take a stance within a hostile universe so as to live better, with meaning.

You have travelled a lot and in a unique, personal way, trying to uncover both the history of the places and people you visit, and their current situation. Based on this experience, what do you think those in positions of power should make sure visitors to Greece, tourists in other words, are provided with?

Tourists, at least those who know why they are coming, would like to see the vision of Greece they have built in their minds. We on the other hand have made the concept of culture an inimical one. We do not know how to handle culture. Culture is generated by the people, by artists, and not by ministries and institutions. They can utilize a country’s culture where the general mood is in favour of this and should not allow the laws of the market to inundate our life. If intellectual products start to become items to be traded, then we have begun to lose the concept of culture. And if we cannot recognize what is and is not culture, how can we offer Greek culture to foreigners? Even Ancient Greek drama is left to its own devices. There ought to be continuous tours with these wonderful works around the whole world. They could act as wonderful ambassadors for us, yet we are letting this treasure store run dry. There is no research being done; tradition is not being disseminated and so we have reached the state where every artist who gets involved has to start from the beginning, to rediscover things from scratch. We have forgotten what directors like Rondiris, Politis and Koun did and so we start from ground zero. What’s more we do something worse. We ignore, delete what those before us have done and make something 'new'. That is disastrous. There are certain milestones. If today someone sets out to stage ‘The Persians’, he cannot just forget Koun’s show. He needs to absorb it, comprehend it, even imitate it. That is both fair and legitimate. However, he cannot just ignore it. So that is why we see ancient drama performances from people who don't know how to read, to decode five lines of the text. A theatrical text is not a novel, it needs to be brought to life, requires different procedures. Ancient drama cannot withstand this slipshod approach. It requires hard work from dedicated people with special skills, primarily when we are talking about the outdoor stages that host these shows. Basic problems need to be solved. This is an epic form of theatre. The people in these plays are not simply characters they are universal forms, figures, representatives of a great mass of people; representatives of mankind.

What does ancient Greek drama mean to foreigners? How do they approach it? What relationship do they have with it?

They make efforts but it is not easy. It is not comprehensible to them. An artist from a Western cultural background cannot easily comprehend how these problems are conceived at a universal level. He approaches it from a morality which has been developed within Western culture, a morality that has to do with modern religions. That is a completely foreign way to approach such works. On the other hand, the Japanese have retained their tradition, in Noh and Kabuki theatre, which are epic works that have things in common with Ancient Greek drama. However, their performances withstand the test of time better. We have the psyche, tradition and mentality to see certain of the problems on a global scale but we are lacking in both general and artistic education.

Rounding off, I would like you to outline a tour for visitors to this country, to choose places, a place, they ought to see when the come to Greece because for you that place or those places sum up what the play is about.

Of necessity I will talk about those places that move me. One thing is certain, thinking people who have certain concerns and a certain level of education will follow specific paths in order to enjoy themselves and to get something out of the whole experience; to walk around the places that move them, recreating in their mind’s eye the great moments of Greek culture. Walking around Mycenae is like a ritual, seeing where the throne room was, Clytemnestra’s room, Iphigenia’s room; walking up to the Acropolis and the Parthenon or around the Ancient Agora, flying far away from the humdrum nature of day-to-day life. Of course, visitors should go and see our theatres too; Epidaurus at sunset to catch the changes in the light as the sun flickers among the pines. Why not see a show there too. Visit the other ancient theatres of Eniades, Ilis and Dodoni; enchanting places that move the visitor and awaken memories because people carry within them a tradition, even if unconsciously. Some stimulus is needed though to wake it. These places can do just that if we are ready to give into their magic.